User talk:Lyellin

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Hello, welcome to Wikipedia. Here are some useful links in case you haven't already found them:

If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian!

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snoyes 03:53, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Hmm, you've been here so long and nobody's welcomed you. That's not very ... well ... welcoming. ;-) Anyway - have fun. --snoyes 03:58, 30 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Hi from Luxembourg[edit]

Hi Lyellin. Just wanted to say thanks for stopping by :) Briséis

Alan Blunt[edit]

Hi, I had an edit conflict with you on Alan Blunt, and have kept my edit (which keeps the important parts of the original). Hope you agree with it ··gracefool 10:39, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A n00b question: If you reply on my page, should I reply on my page too? (ie. what's the convention?) Meanwhile I've replied on my page... ··gracefool 11:28, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
ping :p ··gracefool 12:28, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Please be careful. When you edited those redirects, you made them point to another redirect page, which is is known as a "double-redirect" and is not desirable since it stops at a redirect page and not the article. I've fixed these up, now. Dysprosia 20:55, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia project dance[edit]

what do you think about setting up a wikipedia project for dance? sit might be the best place to organise the dance content from and have some consistancy in what is being put down, whatdo you think? Ohka-

John Kerry and Abortion[edit]

I'll respond to that when you tell me what data you have to back up that "John Kerry is friend to all children"... Frankly, since he supports partial-birth abortion - which is the partial extraction and killing of full term pre-birth infants, I don't see how that can be true. That said, do you really want to go there, or do you admit you were just teasing? and if so, am I also allowed the same largesse? And if so, please lighten up...Rex071404 07:42, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

wow. I suspect he was doing it because of the almost hilarity of this discussion/edit "wars", etc, if you take a step back. I won't put words in Gamaliel's mouth though, but 1- let it go? and 2- let's not start ANOTHER debate here (abortion), because that statement is just plain wrong. Lyellin 07:53, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
I love this. You demand citations and explanations for an obvious joke and then you tell me to “please lighten up”. This is truly theater of the absurd. Gamaliel 08:00, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
The only part of my description of PBA which could be said is less than 100% always accurate, is that not all PBA victims are full term. However, since neither you no I have the statistics, primarily because Abortion Mills, unlike other medical facilities, dont have to keep full records of what they do, there is no measurable way to determine precisely what percent of PBA victims were indeed "full term". That said, any child which is forcibly removed from the womb in a viable state, becomes a de-facto "full-term" infant. This is because, properly speaking, "term" in the context of child birth, refers to ther period of time a child is in the womb. A child is only a "preemie" when exceptional care is required to keep it alive after an unsually early birth. Ok? So don't tell me I am "just plain wrong" for you not nothng of what my knowledge level on various topics is....Rex071404 08:03, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Go read Kerry's campaign page here. Read his quote on abortion. Then read how he's voted. He's voted against preemie abortions, as long as exceptions were made for when not having an abortion would be dangerous to the mother's health. That bill though, was trashed by Bush. That's what you were wrong about, not about what consitutes an abortion, or not. But that is unrelated- if you want to continue talking about this, let's do it on our talk pages, because I don't want to crowd this page anymore. Lyellin 08:11, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)

I Moved this here because I would like to continue to conversation here, if it continues at all.

John Kerry - Partial Birth Abortion (a primer)[edit]

1st note: I am on voluntary 2-3 days hiatus from JK page. That said, here is my reply to you on JK - PBA:

Kerry Has Voted At Least Six Times Against Banning Partial-Birth Abortion. (H.R. 1833, CQ Vote #596: Passed 54-44: R 45-8; D 9-36; I 0-0, 12/7/95, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1833, CQ Vote #301: Motion Rejected 57-41: R 45-6; D 12-35; I 0-0, 9/26/96, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1122, CQ Vote #71: Passed 64-36: R 51-4; D 13-32, 5/20/97, Kerry Voted Nay; H.R. 1122, CQ Vote #277: Rejected 64-36: R 51-4; D 13-32, 9/18/98, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 1692, CQ Vote #340: Passed 63-34: R 48-3; D 14-31, I 1-0, 10/21/99, Kerry Voted Nay; S. 3, CQ Vote #402: Agreed To 64-34: R 47-3; D 17-30; I 0-1, 10/21/03, Kerry Voted Nay)

Kerry Says, “There Is No Such Thing As A Partial Birth.” “Just hours after President Bush signed a law banning what critics of the procedure call ‘partial-birth abortion,’ Senator John F. Kerry declared last night ‘there is no such thing as a partial birth,’ as he and the other Democratic presidential contenders sought the political support of women voters. … ‘It is a late-term abortion. They have done a very effective job of giving people a sense of fear about it. It’s part of their assault on the rights of women in America. … There’s nothing partial about their effort to undo Roe v. Wade.’” (Glen Johnson, “Kerry Hits Ban On Abortion Procedure,” The Boston Globe, 11/6/03)

  • Kerry's fundamental lie about abortion - here.
  • Kerry's gross bias, as expressed on this occassion via indifference, against pro-life women.

Now as to the specific claim you make which relies on the "mother's health"; that term, in the context of various proposed laws controlling PAB does not have ordinary day-to-day meaning. Rather, it's a very broad term of legal art which encompasses a sweeping justification for PBA based on a broad interepration of "mental health". Such interpretations, as currently viewed by most metal health practitioners, would justify PBA to prevent mothers from being "depressed" or "sad". Such loop-holes are simply chimeras for facile excuses to create enough "gray-area" in the law, that enforcement of it is effectively impossible.

To my knowledge, Kerry has never voted "pro-life" even once in the last 10 years. Can you name the vote(s), if you differ? Rex071404 15:10, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

First off, I'll apologize because work got hectic, so it's just now that I'm actually replying. Sorry bout that. But for the reply...
1. My apology for jumping on your comment on the JK page. It was uncalled for. 2. My apologies for being harsher sounding than I wanted to be. 3. May I request that in the future we keep large POV topics away from the debate of whatever we are discussing on a talk page? I don't believe Gamel was implying anything about Abortion, instead, he was being silly.
In response to your porst directly. First of all, I must ask that the both of us attempt to keep personal bias to ourselves. Abortion is perhaps one of the touchiest policital subjects, precisely because it encompases matters of faith, matters of belief, issues over wording, issues over meaning and interpretation of law, etc. I will identify right now my personal bias, just to explain. I try hard to avoid the topic of abortion whenever possible. I do not like abortion, but at the same token, I will not condemn, go against, or speak against those who have an abortion. That is their choice.
I'd also like to keep in mind the difference between a belief and a stance. It is my personal belief that guns are terrible things, and that gun control should make it illegal for anyone to own a gun. This is partly based on religion... I am a Quaker and a pacifist. On the same token, my stance towards gun control is completely different. I do not believe that the government has the right to take away people's guns, or to restrict ownership of guns for hunting purposes. In some cases, I do, but mostly, I follow that line. So I believe it is entirely possible for someone, anyone, to ahve the personal belief that abortion is bad, and not something they support, but at the same token, support politically, through voting, creating legislation, etc, the institution of abortion. In other words, I'm sorry, but the first of the two articles you linked me to, well, does nothing for me. (Besides being a site with a highly obvious bias).
Secondly, and I think most important, is the process of politics. Kerry, and all legislators, are stuck because they have to play with wording, nuances, attempting to get everything they want/support and their constituants want/support. Any person who's done government, from High school simulation to personal experience, knows that those choices, the ones over wording, over specific sections being in or out, often forces those who would support 1 bill to not, or vice versa.
What I'm saying here, is that I agree that Kerry has politically opposed anti-abortion legislation. (now, I personally think that's a good thing, but that's immaterial). The reason I acted harshly, and the reason I apologized above, is that there is a distinct difference between supporting something personally, and supporting something politically. Do I believe that everyone should try to merge those two together? Yes. Do I believe it happens? Of course not. I also know that sometimes, in the fight to protect the rights of all americans, one must vote (for a candidate or a legislator for an issue), against their personal beliefs. Often this is the case when a personal belief is different than that of the legislator.
That's why I reacted harshly, for which I apologize, but I will stand by my belief that Kerry does not personally like abortion, and I will stand by even stronger that I respect him for not allowing his personal beliefs and faith to interfere with his job of protecting the rights of American citizens. Lyellin 11:19, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)
Please don't impute into your view of Kerry, a presumption that he keeps a rational study of personal/political issues going on in his mind. You should not do that, because we don;t need to know about his faith in order to analize his votes. To make this more clear on a parallel example:

Either "drunk driving" is wrong and should be stopped or it isn't - and we should care. There is no ambiguity there. It's irrelevant what a person's personal views are. For example, I am someon who views the do and don't admonitions of the Bible very seriously. The way I view it, in regards to modern alcoholic liquids such as beer, winer, spirits, go, there is no place for them in my home. This is 1st a religious belief, but secondly, having studied the topic closely, it's also a scientific belief. By personal studies on the topic have made clear to me that consumption of alcohol has a deleterious effect on the human body. As such, even if I were not under a religious duty to be a good steward of my body (but I am), on practical level, I would still avoid alcohol.

It is the same with Abortion. There is both a spiritual aspect "Children are a gift from God..." and a scientific aspect - that entity which is being aborted is indeed an in-process human being. When one legislates against abortion, one, in effect, makes a statement along these lines: "As a society, we have interdependancies to each other which must be honored, or society becomes 'every-man-forhimself'. Modern caring societies, ddo not operate that way, and neither can ours. Aborttion devalues human life, kills a developing person and enables the sexual exploitation of women. These negatives are not suffciently offset by the ehnanced personal 'freedom' which 'choice' allows, for that reason, I am opposed to abortion".

John Kerry is using facile reasoning when he suggests that merely because he claims to have a faith-based personal posiiton on the topic of Abortion, he cannot see the real world deleterious effects of Abortion on people.

And in particular, in regards to Partial-Birth Abotion, let's not forget what is going on here: A fully formed infant - one that certainly is viable outside the womb, is partially delivered, feet first; then with it's head still in the cervix, it's skil is crushed, killing it. this diffrs from infanticide only by the fact that the head remains in the womb.

If indeed you are a Quaker, I am suposing that you accept as true that there is a God, yes? The Bible teaches me this "Withhold not good from whom it is due, when it is the power of thy hand to give it".

This is a moral ethic which, if followed, is a good foundation for sane, caring societal laws. Moder society must have a moarla foundation - once which rwests on truths which cannot be negotioated away. Societies which rest on on man-made premises, either are, or evnetually become fascist. I challenge you to disprove this.

The reason why Kerry can induce you to accept the inference of his assertions about his "personal faith" (as tou concede he has done) is because you arre imputing your personal logic into his public assertions.

Unlike you however, since Kerry is wearing the mantle of US Senator, he is required to check his biases att the door. It's not enough to say "I am personally against..." something. What's required of a US Senator is to confirm through study that the underlying ethic of one's belief can be translatd into rules that serve society as a whole, the best. If not, then when leaves their views out. However, if yes, then inserting one's view is not only logically sound, it's morally proper.

The beauty of America, is that those who want to "op-out" can. For exmaple, the Mennonites in my area do not vote (not the ones I have spoken with anyway). And in that, they are at liberty in USA to not do so. However, if my senator was a Mennonite, faith or not, if he did not vote, I would want him out of office.

Likewise with Kerry (who is my Senator - I'm MA). He has a lot of nerve claiming that his "Catholic" beliefs keep him from protecting unborn chilren. There is more to the equatiton than that. One need not be Catholic, not anything else to see the barbarism of cushing the skulls of partially born children.

And to top it off, Kerry mis-reprenst himself as a Catholic. Cahtlisims is a "top-down" heirarchal, mostly-Christian (preying to Mary is not Christian) religion. A basic tenant of Catholisims is that the Pope defines the articles of faith. The Roman Catholic Church, from which Kerry claims his "faith" is as a matter of faith, practice and doctrine, opposed to Abortion. For Kerry to do the opposite and then say he must because he is foced to keep his "faith" from being imposed, is intentionally misleading.

While is is a senator, he has a duty as a senator. If is telling me that his hands are tied because of his faith and that he can not oppose abortion because he equates that with, in effect, tryign to prostelytize the citizens, then what e is telling me is false. One need not be converted to Catholisims in order to want to limit the barbaric practice of child murder.

And Partial-birth Abortion is indeed just that: Child murder. There is no way to gloss that up and there is no way to hide that behind one's intentional confuions of one's private duty to faith and public duty to good law.

Kerry, as a senator, has a public duty to good law, which you, as a private citizen, do not. You are free to imagine abortion to be whatever you think it is, based on faith, or what have you. Kerry on the other hand, is not ffree to disregarrd the factual evidence as to how abortion heurts people and society. Regardless of whether or not he feels squeemish about the risk that he might be "imposing his views", it just so happens that when one's views are correct, one ought to try to do just that - at least to some degree.

Hainvg said that, along the lines off "Prohibition" which showed that alcohol is in such high demand that an outright ban only created a sub-culture of crime and violence, to alesser degre, an outright band on Abortion would also not be owrkable. There is however, nothing impossible about banning Partial-brith Abortion. And since it could be done, is barbaric and is actually never a medical nessecity, there is no reason to allow it to remain legal. That is unless of course, one has sold their soul to NARAL, as I contend that Kerry has done. Rex071404 13:39, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I am surpised at your "Arb" comments[edit]

Frankly, after you invited me to dialog here with you. I had expected you to reciprocate. Rex071404 05:05, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Sympson the Joiner[edit]

  1. Sympson the Joiner survived VfD with two Del votes (including the nomination to VfD), three explicit Keep votes, and two arguable implicit Keeps (via mentions of Cleanup).
  2. In accord with severalWP:CU mentions, it
    1. went on,
    2. got a one-word M(inor) edit after 18 minutes, and
    3. was kicked off by one editor after 14 hours, with summary "nothing more is likely to turn up".
  3. Your comment at Talk:Sympson the Joiner#Should this be Merged? would assist me in determining what next.

--Jerzy(t) 04:25, 2004 Aug 16 (UTC)

Ballets Russes category & Dance[edit]

Hi Lyellin, thanks for the invitation. My "angle" (and original intrest in creating the category), if I my say so, is that of the music composed for the Ballets Russes: if one takes together all the music that was composed following comissions from Serge Diaghilev one has the crème de la crème of all classical music composed around the first World War: I wanted to exploit the Wikipedia opportunities in visualising such relations (that tie together Richard Strauss and Claude Debussy, Respighi and Prokofiev, etc... but also Winnaretta Singer and Vaslav Nijinsky, to name only a few extremes that one can find in this fascinating cocktail). Besides becoming interested in some aspects of dance (and dancers) in throwing myself in this topic, alas I'm no dance expert, and don't know very well where all this fits in the categories of the Wikipedia dance project. I primarily see Ballets Russes as an example par excellence of a ballet company that was a major influence on its time (and long after). Does this help you in any way? --Francis Schonken 06:04, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)


I've been bolding the medal winners (not only in Athletics, but in Archery as well - going alphabetically here) because that's what the consistent format is. That format started before there were Results by Medal sections. Looking at the US page, I can definitely see how it's not a great look when you have a lot of medal sweeps. However, on the smaller countries, it does call attention to medal winners. I don't have a real preference either way, except for consistency. Not sure where a discussion should be held about it, but if there is a discussion and people agree on one way of doing it, that's the way it should be done. - Jonel 05:53, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Go ahead and start the discussion on the WikiProject page or wherever you think is the best place for it. As for me, right now, I need a break from Athletics anyway (way too many competitors in that...) so I won't be changing the format of existing results or adding new ones that might need to be changed later. Going to work on other sports for a bit. (woo, done with Basketball!) - Jonel 06:55, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Rex, RFC[edit]

Rex is now listed on WP:RFC, Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Rex0714042 for vandalizing his talk page. You are wlecome to leave your on comments on this page. Kevin Baas | talk 20:58, 2004 Sep 9 (UTC)

Truth vs "Hostage"[edit]

I fail to see how standing up for truth = holding people hostage. Also, read this [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 Happyjoe.jpg ]] 05:07, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

link requires WAPO log in [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 Happyjoe.jpg ]] 05:23, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

"Appealing" vs Asserting[edit]

I am asserting not "appealing". [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 Happyjoe.jpg ]] 05:24, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Read my TfT talk - they are intimately related due to being potatoes being dug from the same spot in the same field [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 Happyjoe.jpg ]] 05:26, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Re: your comment on my talk page "That's hostage tactics, not appealing to truth." [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 Happyjoe.jpg ]] 05:27, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

please see reply here [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 Happyjoe.jpg ]] 05:57, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

More about Rex[edit]

I don't know whether you still have much interest in the Rex071404 arbitration. The committee is now considering the following as one of its proposed findings of fact: "The compaining witnesses in this matter, because of their numerical majority, felt that Rex071404 did not represent a point of view which had a magnitude of importance equal to theirs, despite its societal significance." I got pretty cheesed off at this. The short of it is that we're being unjustly criticized, without even being told that there was a complaint against us. The long of it is here, here and here. It's produced a pretty typical exchange between Rex on one side and Gamaliel and me on the other. I mention all this only because the ArbCom is considering a proposed finding that, IMO, reflects badly on you, so I thought you ought to know about it in case you want to get involved. If you have more will power than I do and can resist the temptation to keep wasting time on this stuff, more power to you! JamesMLane 09:00, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

They are asserting that you felt a certain way. Only you know how you feel, and they have no right to speculate as to your feelings, and esp. not to arbitrarily assert a characterization of them against your will. I would simply say something like "I do not feel this way.", in addition to any other comment you wish to offer, if indeed, this is not the way you feel. Also, I don't think your feelings are relevant to the case, and they should not be part of the judgement. The case concerns actions, not speculations of feelings or motives. Kevin Baas | talk 21:05, 2004 Sep 13 (UTC)


I'd love some help with the WikiReader! As you can see; I've not done much myself; recently I've had so little time to devote to the project. There is a small to-do list on the Project page; there's a list of things that need to/would be nice if they were done. Apart from that, it would be nice with some input and modification to the list of articles to be included -- if we could "freeze" this set, we could formulate the specific tasks to take the WikiReader to the next step in progress. [[User:Sverdrup|Sverdrup❞]] 20:38, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Don't know if this is the right section to post this. Lyellin, can you take a look at Culpability and help expand it? Primarily, I want some one to look at the moral perspective. Thanks. -- Sundar 05:08, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for agreeing to lookover. -- Sundar 05:31, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)


I'd love to help, buddy, but I seem to be always pressed for time! I'm pretty involved with the Dog Project.
Still, I'll do what I can. Thanks for the invite! Quill 01:02, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Just saw your new note. Actually, I've already contributed to Ballroom dance and got into a spot of trouble, so I'm chary. I've also written Walter Nicks and contributed to Frankie Manning. Yep, I'll help with aerial. I know what you mean about that 'To do' list! Actually, since you're in your soph year I'm amazed you have any 'free' time at all! Don't neglect your studies (don't mean to nag; just got younger siblings, so I'm like that!)
Quill 01:31, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Electoral college[edit]

You did not sign your post about this. See these links:

[[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 Happyjoe.jpg ]] 05:45, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

TfT talk went blank. I restored it. Your comment was lost. Please re-post. [[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 Happyjoe.jpg ]] 04:26, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Final 2004 EV total:

  • Bush 289
  • Kerry 252

[[User:Rex071404|Rex071404 Happyjoe.jpg ]] 17:44, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Did you know has been updated[edit]

And an article you created recently has made the line up and is now featured on the main page. Enjoy! -- [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 08:38, Nov 10, 2004 (UTC)

the bard[edit]

god, i keep meaning to go back and do some more work on that, but i always just end up getting dragged towards the latest wikifashion (wikinews, wikijunior, wikiversity... ) and never end up finishing anything. And now im trying to get a new wikibook about quechua started up and a tri-lingual cross-project notice board set up for everything relating to Latin America (although im putting that off till we get universal logins and watchlists). hot-damn, i need a few more hundred hours in each day. Anywho, ill try and do some work on the wikireader, and if i fall off again, just keep bugging me and ill come back :P The bellman 02:44, 2004 Nov 27 (UTC)

Yo, i started checking Shakespearean authorship, when i thought, "hang on, by the time i finish checking this, someone will probably have edited it", So i propose that we use the form:

Article (The bellman checked - 16:19, 2004 Nov 24 Ricky81682) and also leave a note on the talk page saying, "This page has been reviewed and judged to be ready to be saved in static form as part of the William Shakespeare WikiReader. If you believe that the version of this page which was checked ([6]), is not suitable for static reproduction, please raise your concerns on this talk page.

This makes sure we dont miss some error which is discovered between now and when we finish the wikireader, that we know what we checked, and it also helps publicise it a bit aswell (which can only be a good thing)The bellman 06:23, 2004 Nov 27 (UTC)


I had some trouble testing that nice utility, probably because of an incomplete setup, but probably doesn't see Noether's theorem, it can't see the article. I was led to the wiki2PDF link from the Shakespeare note you posted on the Version 1.0 Editorial Team talk page. This wikiReader project has success written all over it. Nice choice of topic! And you are able to work in peace on the topic, unlike some others which are like Grand Central terminal. It probably helps to have a self-selected/interested set of people of like mind. That is going to be the challenge in the Version 1.0 Editorial Team. (Probably if each article is taken, one at a time, with a selected team for each, then there is a chance for succeeding.) Regards, Ancheta Wis 02:02, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Wikinews vandal[edit]

I gave up reverting the vandalism by on Wikinews.

I've already asked for an Administrator to help out (I'm assuming you're not an Admin yourself?), both on Wikipedia Vandalism in Progress and on Jimbo Wale's talk page.

The Administrators can just rollback everything this user is doing in one fall swoop, right?


--DV 03:17, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

OK, where do I vote for you to be an Admin on Wikinews, given that Wikipedia Admins are not recognized as such over there? --DV 03:44, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Weather update[edit]

I am just about ready to post a new graphic for world surface conditions under the weather section on Wikinews. However, it appears that I can only update the two-column section underneath the single-column header and timestamp of the last update. In other words, I can no longer update where it says "November 29 Surface conditions".

I want to remove the two columns below the header section and update the single column section (the one with the "November 29 Surface conditions" text) to have a large thumbnail graphic with two links underneath it for Fahrenheit and Celsius versions of the full map.

Could you add an "Update" link to the single-column Weather section or otherwise make it possible for non-Admins to edit this section?


DV 20:43, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The Humungous Image Tagging Project[edit]

Hi. You've helped with the Wikipedia:WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

Article Licensing[edit]

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:


Option 2
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team[edit]

Hi, Lyellin. Are there any articles you'd like to suggest for collaboration for the Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team? Thanks. Maurreen 07:12, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

1.0 Collaboration of the Week[edit]

Hi, I noticed you signed up as a member of the Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team, which is looking to identify quality articles in Wikipedia for future publication on CD or paper. Recently, a 1.0 Collaboration of the Week was created to work on essential topics that are in need of improvement, which will ultimately go in a release version of Wikipedia. You can help by voting, contributing to an article, or simply making a comment. Thank you for your support. :) Gflores Talk 08:06, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Version 1.0 "Release Version Qualifying"[edit]

Hi, I'm interested in your feedback on Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Release Version Qualifying. It's essentially an idea to use a process similar to WP:FAC to identify and handle articles and lists that would go in a release version. Maurreen 19:25, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

WP 1.0[edit]

I thought since you are interested in this project you might be interested to see a CD version of en now exists see Wikipedia:Wikipedia-CD/Download & 2006 WP CD Selection. This is being discussed on the 1.0 project pages but progress breeds enthusiasm so I thought I would let you know. --BozMo talk 09:03, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Dance categories[edit]

Hey Lyellin, I'm so glad I found you. The reason: I walked into the maze of dance categories when trying to add cats to the lindy hop page. I naively thought "there MUST be a simpler way to categorize these things" and started to map them out, but the more I did the more enormous the problem became. That gave me the idea that perhaps someone had already tackled the difficult problem and found that this was the best result. So....

I was curious how far you got on cleaning up the dance categories (e.g., did it come to the best you come to? Or was there more to be done but little interest in the community? Are you still working on it?) I saw the template in your sandbox, but never saw it on any of the dance pages on which it could be [really] useful. I'd appreciate any info you have, thanks! 21:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)



I've recently added Libya to the list of featured article candidates. Overall the candidature is going well with many of the objections now sorted out. The final concrete objection is with the article's prose. I have been the main contributor to the article and have been looking at it for the previous 9 - 10 months. My eyes no longer see it freshly, so I am not a suitable copy-editor!

To meet the final demand of copy editing, I have been advised to ask different people to edit parts of the article.

I would really love to get this article featured as you can probably see from the page's history! I've worked very hard on it and I see this as possibly being the final hurdle.

You can see the prose objections, mostly raised by Sandy, on the candidature page. If you have the time, please choose a section (Politics, Religion, Culture etc.) and copyedit, perfect, ace it! I would be very grateful with any help I can get.

Thanks a lot,

--Jaw101ie 16:54, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Olympics WikiProject membership update[edit]

The Olympics WikiProject is performing a membership update to check for currently active and idle members.

Because your username appears on the members list, we kindly ask you visit this page and put your name under the appropriate section, using the code #{{user|USERNAME}}, in order to renew or cancel your membership.

The Olympics WikiProject team

Nationality Rooms[edit]

Your help on that would be awesome! I just haven't had time to fill in the info for those rooms. I would really like to start working on it before the Travel Channel special on the Cathedral airs on the 16th, but just keep being pulled in other directions.CrazyPaco (talk) 17:50, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Hi Lyellin, I'm not really familiar with Wikireaders or what that entails. Anything that promotes Pitt sounds great to me though. As far as my thinking on how complete the Pitt articles are in general, maybe I'm too close to the subject matter, but I feel there are still some substantial holes to fill. However, they're a lot better off than they were a year ago. Articles that need work include, as you know, the nationality rooms. I'd like to have photos for each room too, but I actually live in Philly and don't get out there too much. Being physically removed from Pitt has also made it difficult for me to collect info on certain buildings. I've had to dig pretty hard on the internet to come up with some of that info (architects, construction dates, etc... for instance, info on the University Office Place Building was really hard to unearth because who the heck knew it was originally called the Schenley Office Physicians Building) That said, I'm pretty sure wikipedia now holds the best collection of information on Pitt's campus (outside the Cathedral and Heinz) in one place, but, some of those articles are pretty sparse and I wish I was at Pitt to get more info on, say, Old Engineering Hall. The OEH, Forbes Hall, Ruskin Hall, and the SIS building articles are most in need of fact checking and expansion. Other buildings that could use articles are Falk Clinic and the University Child Development Center (which is a PHLF landmark). My guess is that the Eureka building may have some interesting history behind it too. Two schools of the University lack pages, Pharmacy and Social Work, while others, including CAS, Nursing and Dental, are barely stubs. I think the Pymatuning Labortory of Ecology could have it own article as well and expansion of UPMC related articles is probably warranted...with separate articles for Presby, Western Psych, etc. The overall history of Pitt could be expanded to a degree, especially the last section on more current history in which I sort of just got tired and stopped. One the sports side, Trees Hall, Cost Center, UPMC Sports Performance Complex could use articles, and I've been contemplating a Pitt baseball article. The biggest, most immediate deficit though is in the Pitt football article. It's basically an outline with tables. There is no history there and it could have pages of history on it. Compared to football programs with similar histories, its woefully inadequate, and is a big project. Football and basketball coaches articles are missing or incomplete, and some of the chancellors web pages are really thin.
Ok, so I think there is a ton of work there. Who knows how long that would take to accomplish, so I certainly wouldn't want to hold up any Wikireader project.
As far as other things on the infobox, probably some of the Centers on there aren't worthy of being right on the infobox (UCIS is, but some of the others aren't), but I see that as helping to encourage development of some of those articles. A department in the GSPH has actually directed one of their employees to write some of those, and I'm just happy to see other people working on Pitt related stuff because its seems pretty lonely out there right now, which brings me to the Wikiproject. I would really like to start a Wikiproject, but the Pitt wikipedia community has been really small. I sort of put it out of my mind a little bit, but now that you are interested, I'm start thinking about it again. I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts about all of this. It's really nice to hear from someone else interested in working on Pitt articles!CrazyPaco (talk) 04:22, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Pitt WikiProject[edit]

WikiProject University of Pittsburgh

As a current or past contributor to a Pitt-related article, I thought I'd let you know about WikiProject University of Pittsburgh, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of the University of Pittsburgh and the Pitt Panthers. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks and related articles. Thanks! Addbot (talk) 19:43, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

nationality room policy[edit]

Nationality Rooms[edit]

Hey Lyellin, the 1970s policy revision of the nationality rooms enabled the use of a "broader definition of nation, i.e., a body of people associated with a particular territory or possessing a distinctive cultural and social way of life." The requirement that the rooms be in the style of 1787 or early is still intact as far as I know, but in any case, no current or planned room is designed in a period that would reflect post-1787. CrazyPaco (talk) 01:34, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

You are right about that! It depicts French (Napoleonic Empire) period and references Napoleonic conquests (like the Egyptian motifs). Though this could be said to be late 18th Century, it is clearly after 1787 which was prior to the French Revolution. I believe that is the only exception to that rule. The pre-1787 policy is still in effect as per Maxine's 2001 revision of the "Room Guidelines". Great catch on that! CrazyPaco (talk) 01:56, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
So, there was a news article listing Pittburgh's seven wonders on WTAE's web site see here. They seemed to copy that right off of wikipedia's page. Talk about sloppy reporting. The reason I was so concerned with it is that the story makes Pitt seem much more provincial than it was back then, not that it was a world class university that it is considered today, but suggesting people (especially a cab driver) within the city didn't know where it was located is not only extremely unlikely, but it is a not-so-flattering reimagining of the history of a local institution that had been around for over 100 years at that point. The sloppy copy of this article by WTAE is exactly the reason I wanted this untrue story removed from the wikipedia page as soon as possible, because once it moves into the main stream media it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts, despite not being mentioned in any historical treatments of the University nor mentioned anywhere in the digital archives. It also seemed extremely unlikely due to the massive attention Western University of PA seemed to get when moving Observatory Hill campus to Oakland and changing its name to "U of Pitt" in 1909. In fact, the University built big "HOLLYWOOD" type of electric signs on Mt. Washington and across the hillside in Oakland to announce and promote its move there (12 ft high by 36 feet long, they read "PITT 1787-1912"). Not only that, but Henry Hornbostel's architectural design of the hillside Oakland campus was widely acclaimed, even nationally, in 1908, although it was never completed, the groundbreakings drew crowds and attention. Following this, the University had become a major training center for the military during WWI (which exploded its student population), had established the only schools of medicine in the western part of the state in Oakland, and was drawing 10s of thousands to its football games at Forbes Field. It's almost inconceivable that someone living in the city would not have known that the city's only university at the time (Carnegie Tech could not award bachelors degrees yet) was located in Oakland near the Carnegie Insitute, Forbes Field, Carnegie Tech, and Schenley Park. Pitt's importance to the city throughout the last 200 years should not be diminished because of an urban legend. I hope you see where I was coming from, and that I had reasons for focusing on this and that I wasn't just trying to be nitpicky.CrazyPaco (talk) 19:16, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Don't worry, I'm "chill". I'm just making sure you know where I'm coming from for the sake of Wikipedia:Consensus.CrazyPaco (talk) 23:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Please consider joining the working group for the WMF DC Chapter[edit]

Please consider joining the working group for the WMF DC chapter. Since we have a very active and very community oriented DC/MD/VA area group of Wikipedians, it only makes sense to develop it as a chapter, especially given the recent changes to the Board of Trustees structure, giving chapters more of a vote. Hopefully we will be either the first or the second officially recognized US Chapter (WMF Pennsylvania is pending as well), and hopefully our efforts will benefit WMF Penn as well. Remember, it's a working group, and this is a wiki, so feel free to offer changes, make bold changes to the group, and discuss on the talk page! I hope to see you there, as well as Wikimeetup DC 4 if you're attending. SWATJester Son of the Defender 16:48, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Pitt Wikiproject News[edit]

There is an ongoing debate regarding the introduction of the article for the University of Pittsburgh. In search of WP:Consensus, please let your opinion be known regarding the debate and possible solutions at Talk:University of Pittsburgh. Thank you and Hail to Pitt! CrazyPaco (talk) 22:35, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Discussion about the next DC Meetup[edit]

Greetings! You are receiving this message because you said you wanted to be reminded about future DC meetups on Wikipedia:Meetup/DC_4. We are planning the next DC meetup in late August/early September at Wikipedia:Meetup/DC_5, and would love to have your input. Staeiou (talk) 15:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Unreferenced BLPs[edit]

Information.svg Hello Lyellin! Thank you for your contributions. I am a bot alerting you that 1 of the articles that you created is tagged as an Unreferenced Biography of a Living Person. The biographies of living persons policy requires that all personal or potentially controversial information be sourced. In addition, to ensure verifiability, all biographies should be based on reliable sources. If you were to bring this article up to standards, it would greatly help us with the current 2,411 article backlog. Once the article is adequately referenced, please remove the {{unreferencedBLP}} tag. Here is the article:

  1. Michael Shine - Find sources: Google (books · news · newspapers · scholar · free images · WP refs· FENS · JSTOR · NYT · TWL

Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 05:17, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Pittsburgh event for Wikipedia's tenth anniversary[edit]

Hi! Since you have a connection to Pittsburgh, I wanted to invite you to the Wikipedia Tenth Anniversary celebrations we're having in Pittsburgh on Saturday, January 15. During the daytime, we're going to be having a photo contribution drive where anyone can bring in their digital photos or prints and Wikipedians will teach people how to upload them and add them to articles, and maybe introduction to Wikipedia workshops as well. Then in the evening, we'll have fun at the Carson City Saloon. There will be free Wikipedia t-shirts and other goodies, as well. See the Pittsburgh meetup page for more details. I hope to see you there!--ragesoss (talk) 15:42, 1 January 2011 (UTC)

Invitation to join Wikipedia:WikiProject Pittsburgh[edit]

WikiProject Pittsburgh
An invitation to join us!

You are invited to participate in WikiProject Pittsburgh, a WikiProject dedicated to developing and improving articles about the City of Pittsburgh and the surrounding Western Pennsylvania area. Please see the Pittsburgh WikiProject page for more information. See yinz there!

--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:51, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Djibouti at the 2004 Summer Olympics[edit]

A tag has been placed on Djibouti at the 2004 Summer Olympics, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

Djibouti did not compete at the 2004 Olympics

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If you think that this notice was placed here in error, contest the deletion by clicking on the button labelled "Click here to contest this speedy deletion," which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the the page's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact one of these administrators to request that the administrator userfy the page or email a copy to you. Intoronto1125TalkContributions 00:27, 14 July 2011 (UTC)

Teaching with Wikipedia Workshop at CMU (Aug 15)[edit]

Since you are a member of the Wikipedia:WikiProject University of Pittsburgh, I'd like to invite you to the Teaching with Wikipedia Workshop that will take place at CMU on Aug 15 (this workshop is open to general public, and is a joint imitative of CMU and Pitt). There will be another workshop held at Pitt in the Fall as well. It will cover how to include Wikipedia in one's course (WP:SUP) and also how to become a Wikipedia:Campus Ambassadors. Pennsylvania has currently only one ambassador (myself) and it would be great if we could recruit at least several more. Ambassadors help course instructors, showing them how Wikipedia works, and interact with students. Many current ambassadors come from the body of students, faculty and university staff; it is a fun adventure, and adds to one resume/CV, to boot :) If it sounds interesting, feel free to ask me any questions, or to come to the workshop. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:33, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

File:CathedralofLearning.JPG missing description details[edit]

Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as File:CathedralofLearning.JPG is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors to make better use of the image, and it will be more informative for readers.

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WikiProject Dance[edit]

Hey! I am trying to revive WikiProject Dance and am contacting all members to see if they are still available. If you are interested in continuing, please let me know so I can keep you on the members list. If not, let me know and I'll move your name to the inactive members. Please respond on the project talkpage within seven days or you name will be labeled inactive. Please don't reply here. You can always rejoin if you forget to respond. Also, if you have any knowledge on how to design pages, please note that. Thank you! ReelAngelGirl Talk to me! Tea? 14:59, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:12, 30 November 2015 (UTC)